Michael O'Neill: The Long Game — A Conversation About Music, Life, and Longevity
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What does it take to build a successful music career that spans five decades?
In this special Tone Culture Magazine interview, host Florentino Buenaventura sits down with legendary guitarist, composer, and producer Michael O'Neill, whose remarkable career includes more than 40 years alongside George Benson and collaborations with Stevie Wonder, Al Jarreau, Toni Braxton, The Crusaders, and many others.
Beyond the incredible stories, Michael shares valuable insights into the art of musicianship, the importance of professionalism, the true role of a music producer, and how to remain relevant in an ever-changing industry.
It's an engaging, personal conversation about the lessons learned, the relationships built, and why a lasting career is about more than just playing great music.
Read the companion Tone Culture Magazine feature, "Michael O'Neill: The Long Game," written by Florentino Buenaventura, for a deeper look into Michael's musical journey and the philosophy behind his extraordinary career.
Read the full article:
https://www.tonecultureunited.com/blogs/culture/michael-oneill-the-long-game
In Conversation with Michael O’Neill
Full interview transcript • Tone Culture Magazine Podcast
INTERVIEWER Florentino Buenaventura
INTERVIEWEE Michael O’Neill
EDITORIAL NOTE Transcribed from the supplied interview. Consecutive remarks by the same speaker have been grouped for print readability. Wording is retained from the source transcript, including possible transcription errors; timestamps identify the beginning of each speaking turn.
FLORENTINO BUENAVENTURA [00:00:11]
Welcome to Tone Culture Magazine. My name is Florentino Buenaventura. I'm the host of the Tone Culture Magazine podcast, one of several that will be coming in the future. And Tone Culture Magazine is for the professional musician looking to get information advice insights how tos you name it tone culture magazine is here to support you Mr. professional Mag well Mr. or Miss uh professional musician I let me correct that we we we have a tendency to always be in the masculine but there's so many incredible female musicians as well so my apologies ladies I didn't start with the the duel and all. And we also support anybody that has variations of the above. So with that said, I want to welcome a really good friend of mine, one of the most amazing talents I've ever met. Guitarist, producer, songwriter, scoring genius. best friend you can have. Mr. Michael O'Neill, welcome to Tone Culture Magazine podcast.
MICHAEL O’NEILL [00:01:25]
Good to see you, man. Good to see you. Great to be here. And your audience should know that Tino is short for Florentino, a very wonderful name.
FLORENTINO BUENAVENTURA [00:01:37]
Yeah but it takes a lot of people a long time you can see my name on the bottom is fully Florentino Buenaventura uh it's not as snappy as Michael O'Neill uh but uh you know just you get you comes off rose all the time so yeah how you doing Michael how's how's how's how's how's life treating you how's LA?
MICHAEL O’NEILL [00:01:56]
All good all good man you know I just I just recently moved back into where I came up, which is the San Fernando Valley, uh, Valley Village, which is adjacent to Studio City to be exact. And it's where everything happens. Like so much of the business that I do. Yeah. The things I do, the people I work with are, are situated, although, you know, we do a lot of remote work these days. Um, yeah, I'm, I'm back into my, where I came up. So, uh, things are, you know, a new phase is kind of beginning and it's I'm really happy with it.Yeah. Now.
FLORENTINO BUENAVENTURA [00:02:35]
We're going to get into that and why. Because where you were at with all the touring you were doing made sense because you get a little bit of chance to get away from all the chaos of LA. But now that you are doing a lot more, you know, scoring and, you know, performances, artists support your own artists, you know, you know, projects.So you're definitely in a good place. So let's, you know, with that said, let's kind of talk about your journey. The key turning points that have really changed your life so that people can understand you've had, you know, decades in this business and going back, if I'm not mistaken, to the 70s, if not, you know, a little earlier as as a kid so tell us about your journey Michael.
MICHAEL O’NEILL [00:03:31]
Sure well to go way back I mean I grew up in America as a young person you know at you know arguably one of the greatest times in music business you know like the actually it was in the 60s uh when we had like okay my the biggest things I was listening to in AM radio when it was very eclectic Yeah. So many things were, were coming through it. And, uh, I was a big fan of the Beach Boys. The Beach Boys were an amazing, kind of like underrated and overlooked group in some senses. Um, I was listening to them a lot. And then of course came the British invasion. The Beatles hit, you know, it, it changed the world. The Rolling Stones I was already listening to before the Beatles even came. So.
FLORENTINO BUENAVENTURA [00:04:22]
Because you're the bad boy.
MICHAEL O’NEILL [00:04:24]
Yeah, yeah, exactly. I'm just joking, folks. Yeah. So there was that. And then there was Motown, you know, all the soul music, like all in the same place on AM radio, you know, really, you know, went from one song to the next. You could hear, you know, the best of the best of all genres, not just pigeonholed into slots like we have today, you know? So I came up in that period. So it was about the songs. I felt, I was lucky enough to like come up with great music songs. The songs were like really short usually too, you know, for the singles, you know, for radio play. So you had to get to the point and solid songwriting, you know. So that's where it kind of began for me, although that's where it began for my attempt to actually do it. I should go all the way back to my childhood. My godfather, which is my grandmother's, my Mexican grandmother's brother, was founding member of the very first called Trio Folklorico from Mexico, which is the three guitars with the sombreros and the serapes, you know, playing the beautiful romantic kind of music called boleros, right? So that was my introduction. The first things that I heard as a young kid at like three. And they would come every year to Los Angeles to perform at the Million Dollar Theater in downtown LA. So they would have parties at my grandparents. I was really close to them. So I'd be around there here soaking all this in. And I'm told that at three years old, at one of the parties, they put me up on a table to do my Elvis impression because, you know, Hound Dog, it was like, Anyway, I was kind of born into this, like, you know, love of music and the arts and stuff.So, but coming back to, you know, the early days there, I started with like, you know, learning little riffs like any other young guy in the US, you know, listening to music. Started that on basic level, then got into like the high school level where I was introduced to the blues masters, B.B. King, Albert King, Freddie Kane. Soaked that up for nothing but that for a couple of years, you know, which kind of led then segued into Hendrix and Cream. So I had trios, power trios in high school playing Hendrix and Cream music and Jeff Beck. Yeah. Fell in love with all that. And then as my interest kept, I've stayed curious. I still do. I seem to get a little tired with a certain thing after a while and then I want more. So I went from that into listening to the groups like Jethro Tull and Procol Haram. and wanting you know kind of the more of the structure of their kind of music I started to get into that learning on piano you know start to play piano not great I've never.
FLORENTINO BUENAVENTURA [00:07:38]
Been was that was that was was that your first instrument or was it always guitar?
MICHAEL O’NEILL [00:07:42]
Actually it was bass okay and and this is why in my productions I play bass because I know how to play bass I know how bass functions When I play bass, I'm not a guitar player playing bass. I'm a bass player.
FLORENTINO BUENAVENTURA [00:08:00]
That's good because quite often you hear guitar players trying to play bass and their mind is thinking like a guitarist and you're like, oh, no, that's not right.
MICHAEL O’NEILL [00:08:11]
Yes, exactly. So nonetheless, I mean, from there, I was doing that stuff, learning more and more, a little more complex music and stuff. And then a friend of mine, I was hanging with him one day and he puts on this record by this guy named West Montgomery. And I lost my mind. I was like, whoa. So I went on a whole period of like, you know, learning. And mind you, I was never formally trained really in those days. It was like learning it from records. You know, you had to do it by ear. And I ruined my whole vinyl record collection that way, you know?
FLORENTINO BUENAVENTURA [00:08:50]
Yeah. The grooves were, all the guitar solos had deeper grooves.
MICHAEL O’NEILL [00:08:55]
Yeah, yeah. And, and so then it was Wes, it was Wes learning all that stuff and then trying to, trying to get a hold of that kind of stuff. And then, and then like one day I was working, you know, I was doing little gigs here and there, not making a whole lot of money, but you know, barely paying my bills. And one day I was also working a job as a car detailer. I worked for this Chevy company, right? And they had like a fleet lot out. It was a hot summer day out in this big field where they had all the new cars with all the stickers on them and everything. So as a detailer, you had to go there and like, you know, get all the stickers off and then like detail the outside, polish it, wax it. So I got inside the car after I did the outside this one day and it was hot. So I had the air conditioner cranked, FM radio cranked on the jazz station, and on came this track of a guitar player, like was out of this world. I'd never heard anything like it. And it was George Benson from Body Talk album.
FLORENTINO BUENAVENTURA [00:10:06]
Oh, wow.
MICHAEL O’NEILL [00:10:08]
And I meant, oh my God. So I went home and bought that record that day. started learning.
FLORENTINO BUENAVENTURA [00:10:14]
All right, folks, we're back. Sorry. Technical glitches, little gremlins in the system. We've switched around. I don't know why. Now I'm in the first side and and Michael's on the second side. But although he's on the right side, he's he's he's got the creative left side thinking going on. There we go. So, Michael, you were just telling me how you discovered George Benson while you were working in a car doing some detailing in a Chevy. So let's start off with there.
MICHAEL O’NEILL [00:10:52]
Exactly. Yeah, it was a hot summer day, so I had already detailed the outside of the car and I was on the inside blasting the air conditioning and FM radio on the jazz station. I heard this like otherworldly guitar playing. And it turned out to be George Benson Body Talk album and the single from that record. And I went out and bought it immediately and started to try and, you know, learn some of those lines that he had. And, you know, so I went on that that I mean, that really, really opened up a whole other universe for me. Yeah. And ironically, I mean, I've ended up he's been my most significant gig in my entire life. I mean, I'm still affiliated with George, although we're not really doing much anymore. But this is like from 1981 to now.
FLORENTINO BUENAVENTURA [00:11:49]
Yeah, we should we should actually clarify that. So Michael's been with George for 30 plus years. 40, 40, 40 years, 40 plus years. Oh, my gosh. I, I, you know, I guess I, I met you around ten years ago, so it was like 30, 30 years ago. So, so yeah, 40 plus years. And, you know, did you when you were in that car, jamming into George.Did you go? I'm going to play with that guy someday or I wasn't.
MICHAEL O’NEILL [00:12:21]
No, because I didn't feel worthy at that point.
FLORENTINO BUENAVENTURA [00:12:25]
Okay. Okay. Okay.
MICHAEL O’NEILL [00:12:26]
Wasn't ready yet for that.
FLORENTINO BUENAVENTURA [00:12:28]
Yeah. You're a super humble cat. You know, in fact, I'm going to tell a little story to some of the folks here because that humility that you have Although you are one of the best guitar players I know, and you've played on so many tracks from Stevie Wonder, Al Giroud, Toni Braxton, Hubert Laws, Vince Gill, Brad Paisley. I mean, we're talking from R&B country, Jason Mraz, pop. You know, it is so varied and you've got so many great, great recordings and tours that you've done. The one thing that I realized, and this is an important piece to any artist coming up, I invited Michael to play the launch party of my company at NAMM one year. And he came out and did a jam with some amazing players. And long story short, the call time was like five o'clock. And Michael and crew got there at around 4:15. And I was so used to typical musicians getting there around 5:30. I said earlier call time going, this is important. We got a launch party for this company. And what I learned from that is the consummate professional is exactly that they do what they say they say what they do they always go beyond expectations and that really sums up my experience with Michael O'Neill always going above and beyond my expectations and that's a really a big shout out to you and a great lesson for anybody listening right now so.
MICHAEL O’NEILL [00:14:23]
Amen amen well you know what the cliche saying is Tino if you're on time you're late yeah yeah.
FLORENTINO BUENAVENTURA [00:14:31]
Well, you were 45 minutes early and we were getting ready. We were still getting ready for you. And I'm like, shoot, we got it. We really got to get ready for him.
MICHAEL O’NEILL [00:14:39]
So it's all good.
FLORENTINO BUENAVENTURA [00:14:40]
And we were so honored and it was such a great, great experience for everybody. That's where you met Rebecca and Kevin Flournoy came out. They were there and it's just, yeah.
MICHAEL O’NEILL [00:14:52]
Which by the way, ironically, I just heard from Kevin Flournoy yesterday.
FLORENTINO BUENAVENTURA [00:14:58]
Oh, really? Okay.
MICHAEL O’NEILL [00:14:59]
Because we're both involved in, he's a musical director for this thing. September 9th at Spagettini, there's a fundraiser show for guitarist Ray Fuller.
FLORENTINO BUENAVENTURA [00:15:11]
Oh, yeah, yeah.
MICHAEL O’NEILL [00:15:12]
Yeah, because Ray injured his hand and he can't play right now. And so he needs. he needs help to get this surgery done on on his hand so uh we're all chipping in you know and uh should and it'll be a really nice night of music September 9th also with uh Kevin's the MD we'll have uh Sekou Bunch on bass.
FLORENTINO BUENAVENTURA [00:15:37]
Oh um iconic players iconic players.
MICHAEL O’NEILL [00:15:40]
Rayford Griffin on drums myself and then there's going to be other artists coming in like Adam Hawley I think Andrea Lisa is coming Those are the ones I know about. They're going to be a lot more, though, I'm sure.
FLORENTINO BUENAVENTURA [00:15:53]
Yeah, that's going to be a special, special night for sure. So, folks, if you're if you're tuning in, Spaghettini's is a restaurant in Solana, Solana Beach, where Seal Beach. We're Solana Beach down here. Seal Beach is here. I would always mix those two up. I. Completely different area. We're San Diego. That's more, that's still like Orange County area. Yes. But great place to see incredible jazz from some of the iconic, what we call first call players. So Kevin is recently been on tour with Shaka and all the diva, the diva tour that came around with all the incredible artists there. And you know, this just, There's just a huge collection.Sekou, Michael Jackson, original bass player for Thighs High with Tom Brown. So it's a it's a pretty good, good lineup. But this is not the only people you've played with. You've played with a lot of other folks. Now, your first major project was the Crusaders, right?
MICHAEL O’NEILL [00:17:05]
My first major tour yes I'm sorry my first tour I had been like circulating in LA in the scene you know playing with a lot of expanding my circles and Network you know playing you know just doing everything I could do um and a friend of mine was uh uh working as a keyboard tech with Joe sample at the time Crusaders and they were looking for a guitar player so they set up an audition for me And I went and bought their latest two vinyl records and learned three songs off of each of them. And when I got to the audition, they called those songs. So I was on top of them and I didn't really even have to read, but they had the charts in front of me, so they thought I was reading it. You know, I mean, I read fairly well. I read well enough. I'm not a dead on first take sight reader for hard, hard, hard stuff. But I read and reading, that's a thing a lot of people don't understand. There's dead on sight reading and that's required for the top, top big studio session. If you're going to work for John Williams in the studio, you got to be bam. Okay. But for a lot of other things, it can be just used as a tool to learn quickly. It's very valuable. So reading to some degree or another is good. Nonetheless, I got the gig right away and I was on my way. So we had played like the Hollywood Bowl and now we were going to go to Europe. And this will give you an idea of the times. the tour manager says before we leave if you want to bring your luggage over to my house the night before you can drop it with me I'll check in and meet you at the gate with your boarding pass okay so long before any of this security mess that we deal with today yeah so and and I did that so so we're flying to we're starting the tour in London and we're flying through JFK in New York on American Airlines so we fly We get to New York and now we're in the terminal going to the connection and it's looking weird to me. And I'm like, guys, are we in the right place? Where are we going to go? Oh, well, we're going to fly on the Concord. I'm like, what's the Concord? The Concord was like the exclusive, like it flew at twice the time of sound.
FLORENTINO BUENAVENTURA [00:19:40]
Yeah, it was supersonic.
MICHAEL O’NEILL [00:19:41]
Yeah, supersonic. So Whoa, okay. So now I get in my seat in the Concord and Paul McCartney sits next to me. This is how it starts, you know? Wow.
FLORENTINO BUENAVENTURA [00:19:56]
Well, this is what it's supposed to be like, right?
MICHAEL O’NEILL [00:19:59]
Yeah. But so you know what? I was really green. I was. I got the gig based on I I was really going into improvising and soloing and playing straight ahead jazz that was my focus my I I never gave a thought to Rhythm or supportive playing so I only lasted about six months with them I wasn't really ready but the fact that They let me go and turn the light bulb on and showed me what I needed to have a sustained career in this business.
FLORENTINO BUENAVENTURA [00:20:30]
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
MICHAEL O’NEILL [00:20:31]
And I went on a mission of learning how to do that after that.
FLORENTINO BUENAVENTURA [00:20:36]
That is awesome. And that's an important insight that I want to share. So obviously the industry's changed a bit and we're going to get deeper into that later on in this conversation, but In that first tour, what are some core things that are going to be forever in this business that you know that no matter what you do as a professional, you need to know this, this and this. So three things with that. And what do you think there are? Well, we already talked about one, you're not meeting somebody at the gate with your luggage. That's a whole different other story. But what are the three things from the business side of everything that You say this is never going to happen again.
MICHAEL O’NEILL [00:21:23]
Well, well, well, for one thing, I mean, the one thing I would say is, you know, it's kind of pretty rare that you're going to be on your first tour flying on the Concorde. Then that just doesn't happen. It just happened to happen to me. So there's that. Number, I mean, now in terms of like, just some advice I'd give in terms of being a sideman, you know, getting a gig to support an artist, your name is not on the marquee.
FLORENTINO BUENAVENTURA [00:22:04]
Yeah, that's important to know.
MICHAEL O’NEILL [00:22:05]
Your name is not on the marquee. So, you know, you're there to uplift the person that is hiring you to, to, uh, do that role, play that role.
FLORENTINO BUENAVENTURA [00:22:22]
Yeah.
MICHAEL O’NEILL [00:22:23]
And so you wanna, you wanna have that hat that you're wearing that's, is that gig fit perfectly in every way, in every way. And, and, and, and tho those, those things never change as far as, you know, what is required to do these, uh, do these jobs is like you, have to have the utmost respect and you need to take care of that artist.A lot of it is, is musical, but a lot of it is also psychological and emotional. It's like you gotta remember that an artist that puts themself out on the front line, they're like naked to the world.
FLORENTINO BUENAVENTURA [00:23:04]
Yeah. Yeah.
MICHAEL O’NEILL [00:23:04]
They're very vulnerable. They feel very vulnerable and they can, you know, they can get worried and, and stressed out and like, and, and they can like not know how to express it and they can, seem like they're like being very unreasonable, like a sound check.Oh, my God, you got to do this, do this, do this. And it took a while for me to understand that. Okay, I got you. I got you. You know, I'm going to hold you up.
FLORENTINO BUENAVENTURA [00:23:36]
Yeah. And I think a lot of people don't realize that. Because they think it's all about me. And when you are a first call player, it's all about the artists.
MICHAEL O’NEILL [00:23:47]
Yeah. Exactly. So those things never change. I mean, and that applies to anything I agree to play with. I don't care how small the artist or situation is. If I agree to do it, I'm going to do it that way. It's just not standard and it's what I know works, you know?
FLORENTINO BUENAVENTURA [00:24:10]
And it's something I found consistent across people at your level. And that's how they got to be at that level, because they could be the best player in the world. But without that type of, you know, perspective and mentality, you're going to find like I had a buddy who's great player. He didn't understand why he was not always able to keep a gig. He loved certain types of music, so he tried to stay in that lane. But every time he would play, he's a keyboard player. Everything was super flowery. Everything was big chords because that's what he loved. And I get that. But quite often all you need are three notes if you're a keyboard player. And he could not get that. And I talked to him and said, Hey, man, you can't always play. what you want you got to play what's needed you got to play the song you got to play the artist he's like well that's just who I am and I'm like well that's just why you don't have a a steady gig with with these guys yeah.
MICHAEL O’NEILL [00:25:11]
That's right that's right you know and and and it's like so to that point you're so right like the first thing you uh if you accept a position is to know the music you know the music whatever your role is in it start there with the specific, you know, designated parts that are essential.
FLORENTINO BUENAVENTURA [00:25:32]
Yeah. And.
MICHAEL O’NEILL [00:25:33]
Then once you're solid there, I think it's also important to kind of maybe interject some of your your yourself in it, but not before you have the foundational stuff solid.
FLORENTINO BUENAVENTURA [00:25:51]
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly. So, you know, we were talking a bit about the Crusaders and that, you know, that and that tour was Street Life and that's like my favorite Crusader song. That's where I really learned, you know, as a kid, I had heard, you know, pop disco and everything because that's when it was coming out. And that was a very jazzy version of What was going on in the clubs? And I fell in love with that track. But like you, I'm a huge George Benson fan. And I've come to the concerts and hung out with you a couple of times at these shows. This kind of jump up to that time. Working with George Benson and even other major artists, you shared quite a bit of that already about that experience about propping up the artists. What are some other key things that artists today need to know about working with those level of artists? What did you learn and how does that apply to today? Because very frankly, it's still going to be going on. You got your Sabrina Carpenters, your Taylor Swift, your Harry Styles. They all tour with musicians. all day long that we know these, you know, a little bit, you know, a different version of first call players for that flavor. But the job is the same. So tell us about that.
MICHAEL O’NEILL [00:27:23]
Yes. Well, I mean, I can only relate to that to today's, you know, generation of musicians up to a certain point because obviously the social media aspect of things has blown up into a place where you know, for, you know, where, okay, today's career musician coming up is kind of juggling between if they're doing a role backing up an artist, that's one thing, but they're always representing themselves, you know, their own career positions via social media. so I mean that to me that it occurs to me that that you have to have a healthy balance of those things I mean if that gets out of balance you get you're on a tour with someone that's paying you to be out there and you get too far into your own side of things of social media look at me I'm doing this I'm doing this I'm and and it takes away anything from from the artist you're working for that's that's out of balance yeah um now I I I do I do believe that that it's important for uh for all of us to be able to represent ourselves and use and um take the opportunity of these to advance ourselves individually via these great gigs too it's also important to do um I remember I was on a a a long like about a four or five week European tour with George and I had just started scoring a a feature film and so they hadn't even shot anything yet but by the time I came back from the tour I had 30 cues composed already.
FLORENTINO BUENAVENTURA [00:29:15]
Yeah yeah you're on tour.
MICHAEL O’NEILL [00:29:17]
On tour I had my laptop system out with me little little keyboard you know 28 keys whatever it was 30 keys I did 30 cues by the end of that tour. I came home with so and but I didn't let it get in the way of the reason I was there.
FLORENTINO BUENAVENTURA [00:29:37]
Yeah. Yeah. And that's a that's a huge important identification of, again, going back to it, the consummate professional. I think that's going to be a key that carries through any generation between now and the future. that that level of integrity and professionalism is core because quite often that's where it ruins careers. You see it. You see it more directly in the movie space. You hear about people with bad attitudes sometimes to get away with it, but quite often it catches up with them. So anybody right now, if you don't have a can do attitude and if you're not supportive, You better just be your own artist because you're not going to get gigs working for other people.People want to work with people that they want to work with. It doesn't matter how great you are. If they don't want to work with you, they're not going to.
MICHAEL O’NEILL [00:30:34]
That's right. In a funny kind of way. I mean, one of my biggest relationships that I'm still quite enjoy working with these days is the Ronnie Foster organ trio. Ron Foster's incredible talent you know but but we we're in the studio like recording this record uh called reboot on on Blue Note you know this was like maybe two years ago we were doing this and we were in the we're working on the one two and then I made a suggestion I go what if we do this here he goes well yeah you can do that on your record It was great. It was great.
FLORENTINO BUENAVENTURA [00:31:14]
Yeah, that's that's that's that is definitely insightful. That's great. That's great. Just do that on your record, not mine. Yeah, that's classic. That's kind of is important to know. So, you know, as we're as in consideration for time and everything, I want to I want to kind of jump up to well, actually, I'm not going to jump that far. We're going to go to Give me give us your insight because you are a producer among producers. You've worked with so many people, you've produced other producers. What is your definition of producing? And let's kind of start with what I get a lot from from uh young professionals you know the young professional says producing is being an arranger being a songwriter uh being an engineer and and I can see how that plays right out right now because a lot of DIY comes into play with making your music because you don't have access to incredible specialists like we did back in the day. But there's still that I feel like there's a missing element to what producing truly is. What is your definition of the purest sense of producing?
MICHAEL O’NEILL [00:32:40]
Boy, that that is a loaded question, my friend. That's a big one. But but you know what? Well, first of all, back to some of the things you're saying is like we're dealing now with with a lot of budgetary restraints.
FLORENTINO BUENAVENTURA [00:32:55]
Yeah.
MICHAEL O’NEILL [00:32:56]
So that dictates, you know, kind of like as a starting point, that dictates a lot of what you can do. But like, like I work with producers that are not even like musicians that are just like and Why they're valuable is because they're the ultimate listener, audience, regular Joe perspective.
FLORENTINO BUENAVENTURA [00:33:24]
Yeah.
MICHAEL O’NEILL [00:33:25]
And those are the people that buy the recordings.
FLORENTINO BUENAVENTURA [00:33:29]
And they have the ear, yeah.
MICHAEL O’NEILL [00:33:30]
And they have an ear. They have an ear and an innate feeling what something makes them feel like, you know. So, so, you know, and then back in the day when the budgets were golden and big and everything, they could have producers like that, you know, that really can, you know, help, you know, shape and help guide a project through to its completion, making sure that it was going to feel good to the general public, you know?
FLORENTINO BUENAVENTURA [00:33:59]
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
MICHAEL O’NEILL [00:34:00]
And now so so you know there's so many definitions to it but I I would say like if there's a generic way to kind of an overview of it would be to um to try and uh help the artist uh uh be fully represented in their true essence yeah that would be like kind of like the the goal because and so that involves like if I start working with someone the first thing that I like to do is research see what what if they check out their prior works see where they're at you know get to know them get to know them some personally you know um and then from that you know get that that way you can like you know for specifically like it's about if it's a vocal artist You can know, like, for example, what their singing range is.
FLORENTINO BUENAVENTURA [00:35:01]
Yeah.
MICHAEL O’NEILL [00:35:02]
What their tendencies style wise are, what's their wheelhouse, what's their strong lane? What's the best lane to put them in? And then from there you can you can get a good idea of how much you can push them into like new territory.
FLORENTINO BUENAVENTURA [00:35:24]
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
MICHAEL O’NEILL [00:35:26]
You can't just like throw them out into the ocean of something new that they've never done.
FLORENTINO BUENAVENTURA [00:35:31]
Yeah, there's a comfort zone that needs to transition smoothly.
MICHAEL O’NEILL [00:35:35]
Yeah.
FLORENTINO BUENAVENTURA [00:35:36]
For the most part, every so often you could throw somebody into the ocean and they'll learn how to swim real quick.
MICHAEL O’NEILL [00:35:43]
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Not advisable.
FLORENTINO BUENAVENTURA [00:35:46]
Not advisable for sure. For sure. And that's an important. you know, insight for for people on how to do that. Because I feel like that part of the producing gets lost in the translation. You know, we've got producers still around doing still often doing projects like Rick Rubin, who is you know, if you if you've heard any interviews with Rick Rubin, producer of everybody from Johnny Cash to the Red Hot Chili Peppers to Parliament, Funkadelic, you name it. He's worked with one of the guys who created the whole rap experience that we have with Def Jam. So I bring that out because he's the consummate producer still for this generation. Rick doesn't engineer. He doesn't know how to make music. He doesn't play an instrument. He doesn't sing, he doesn't rap. But he just loved music so much and understood what people wanted because what they want, what he wants is what they want. He won't make music because, like some of the producers, including myself, when I've produced, I come from a marketing background. And I'll go, okay, let's try to make them make something for this market or that market. And there's there's times for that. But for the most part, that purest producer is who I admire and respect the most. Jeffrey Weber is a good, you know, friend that we both know.
MICHAEL O’NEILL [00:37:15]
Yeah.
FLORENTINO BUENAVENTURA [00:37:16]
Another jazz producer, David Benoit, the Captain and Chanel, even Yeah, he did that. I always like to tease him about that heavy metal album from Pat Boone. Oh my God.
MICHAEL O’NEILL [00:37:33]
Yeah, I've done some work with Jeff in the studio. I worked on a few projects with him and you're right. I mean, he's an attorney.
FLORENTINO BUENAVENTURA [00:37:40]
Yeah, yeah, he's an attorney.
MICHAEL O’NEILL [00:37:42]
But a good business mind and a lover of music, again, with an ear and a feeling for what works. And so, yeah, now that being said, those are the ones that are, you know, like... Yeah, you know, but then there's ones like, I like to at least aspire to being kind of both sides.
FLORENTINO BUENAVENTURA [00:38:09]
Yeah, yeah.
MICHAEL O’NEILL [00:38:10]
Having that, that, that regular Joe mentality. But then, you know, I'm a musician, composer.
FLORENTINO BUENAVENTURA [00:38:16]
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
MICHAEL O’NEILL [00:38:18]
Hands on.
FLORENTINO BUENAVENTURA [00:38:18]
And that's great. But the thing is, you understood that as a producer, that's usually, we've had a chance to work a bit with a good friend of ours, Richard, shout out to Richard. And you were able to, you knew to focus. How do you bring an artist that's never worked with a producer like you into bringing out the most incredible talent in himself if all you were doing was playing music gave him a track he would have never been able to deliver the way you the way you were able to bring out bring that out in him so you knew that that's the core of the producer all the other stuff is basically it's a support team like with Jeff I know intimately he has an incredible engineer he has an incredible arranger uh his team of players or you know just the the who's who like yourself um you know Rhonda Smith you name it he's worked with the best of the best at the highest levels and so he has this collection of people he calls on uh you are your own collection and that's okay but you know when you're the producer what to tell you to do.
MICHAEL O’NEILL [00:39:26]
Well yeah yeah well yes yes there is that is it and then if um and then if if if there's any sort of like uh budget involved then then I can like you know go beyond and like get like like the one the one area if it's if it's like basically you know uh band oriented kind of music when I can I like to get a real drums on I mean I can handle it I can handle it I'm used to handling everything myself but when there's that that'll be kind of like the first thing I I try to get, if I can, is get real drums on something, you know, and.
FLORENTINO BUENAVENTURA [00:40:10]
I totally get it. So I didn't put this in the list. I'm going to throw a curveball at you. Yeah, here it is. Here it is. AI music, man. What's your thoughts on AI music?
MICHAEL O’NEILL [00:40:24]
Well, I think AI music is fantastic for an AI audience.
FLORENTINO BUENAVENTURA [00:40:30]
That's a that is a great response.
MICHAEL O’NEILL [00:40:35]
Okay. That being said, that being said, number one, I was really happy to hear that Spotify ejected 700,000 AI generated tracks from their playlist. That's a good. So there's there's pushback. There's pushback going on from the industry. Okay.
FLORENTINO BUENAVENTURA [00:40:53]
Yeah.
MICHAEL O’NEILL [00:40:53]
So that's good.
FLORENTINO BUENAVENTURA [00:40:56]
Did they check that off the list or did they remove it from pain? I thought they I think title removed them and then and I could be wrong, but I thought and I might not be up to date because I know that they were like, we're not going to pay you for an AI track.
MICHAEL O’NEILL [00:41:11]
I'm not sure. I'm not sure whether what the case was, but in any event, that's at least a good slap on the wrist, you know, for for that. That being said, I do think there's a place for AI as, you know, as a virtual assistant.
FLORENTINO BUENAVENTURA [00:41:32]
Yeah.
MICHAEL O’NEILL [00:41:32]
As a virtual, because you could hire a virtual assistant to kind of, let's just say, for example, you're producing an artist and you're promoting an artist. For PR, you could, you know, AI is so good at like, write me up a blurb about this artist that covers this, this, this, and that. and it's going to do it like this and it's going to be better than what you can do so in that sense great I see some other people uh using you know AI to create a music video I think that's also not bad you know um combine it with some real footage uh you know to for a music video but and and I have been using it like uh I I uh My workstation is Logic and Logic has nowadays a stem splitter, you know, which is an AI.
FLORENTINO BUENAVENTURA [00:42:32]
Tool.
MICHAEL O’NEILL [00:42:34]
And for me, it's been useful in terms of like because I had done a lot of tracks in the past before I was even thinking along the lines of having my music in other forms of media, such as film and television and advertising and whatnot. And, you know, oftentimes or most of the time when you if it's a song, if it's a vocal song, they want a version with and without vocals.
FLORENTINO BUENAVENTURA [00:43:01]
Yeah.
MICHAEL O’NEILL [00:43:02]
You know, so that they can, you know, like if you hear a certain ad or you see a scene, you know, you hear the lyric and then there's dialogue by the characters. So they take the vocal out, right?
FLORENTINO BUENAVENTURA [00:43:14]
Yeah.
MICHAEL O’NEILL [00:43:16]
I'm able to do that with songs that I never did a mix without vocal on. So that's very useful, you know.
FLORENTINO BUENAVENTURA [00:43:24]
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think a lot of folks are doing that. Dr. Dre said that it's unstated a secret that most of the top producers are now using AI. Here's what I will say about AI 'cause I've played around with it a lot, I've made tracks 'cause I wanted to see what it was like. And I'm impressed, man. Honestly, I guess they used without license the models of other tracks to kind of help build that. I think they should come back around and pay people where they use those tracks for the licensing of that. But overall, what I would say about AI is if you are, say, a singer or a guitar player, bass player, whatever, And you've got other instruments like you want to write songs.You wrote a great, you know, melody. You've got great lyrics and like Mohini Day, she she talks about this. She's a bass player and she knows other instruments, but she's not she's not like you, where you're like consummate professional on bass guitar. You know how to program drums. She will use that to fill in all of the rest of it. So say, Hey, look, I want you to do something like this. Because sometimes you try to tell that to somebody. And what ends up happening is they've got to interpret what you're saying to them and what you're saying to them isn't quite what you're interpreting it the way you're, you're handed because they've got a different version of what funk is or what groove is or what rock is or stuff like, you know, there's the old tale. I don't know. Steve Lukather, you know, when, when Quincy Jones said, play it with rock style, the beat it track, he played it like as if he were, you know, Motley Crue, right? Just completely brash. And, and, and, you know, Quincy's like, now what is it? You got to tone that down a little bit because we, you know, we're not selling to that crowd, but in his mind is like, I need to do that. So if you're able to verbally communicate these things, AI is really good at understanding kind of the direction you want to go because it's taking to a lot more consideration versus someone's personal experience. It's really being more unbiased that way. So I've done that with songs that I've wanted to hear certain ways that I never could hear any other way. Like I'm never going to. I like there's a, you know, a big band song I wanted to create, and I'll never have the budget to do a big band for this song because it's not something I'm going to sell. And, you know, having a full horn section is not a luxury I could afford, but I could do that with AI.
MICHAEL O’NEILL [00:46:19]
Right, right. So if I understand what you're talking to, as concerns the Mohini Day example, you said, So she uses this as a way to be able to show the other players in her band the direction she wants, but then they recorded their own.
FLORENTINO BUENAVENTURA [00:46:40]
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
MICHAEL O’NEILL [00:46:41]
I think that's I think that's a very, very fair use of it and a good use. I think it's a good use of it.
FLORENTINO BUENAVENTURA [00:46:49]
There's a lot of people that are going to be able to do that and bring that in. What they're doing is they're talking about I don't know if they've implemented yet, but basically there'll be levels If the platform will accept the song, if it's 100% AI, they will not pay out on that because there's just a lot of garbage coming out. People are just throwing out the stupidest thing. And these are not people that have a professional, you know, drive for it. They just let me just make a million AI songs, download them and put them up, pay my ten bucks or whatever per song. And if I can get a bunch of people to listen to it because it's got a good beat, then I'm golden.But what I feel is going to I feel that it's going to pull back somewhere in the middle where this is what they're saying. If you've got a real singer, you've got real instruments on it. Maybe you have AI drums, maybe you don't. Maybe you have real drums and AI strings. Maybe you don't. You know, if you have stuff like that where it's a blend, they are going to accept that. I don't know if it's going to be a a percentage difference between what you make. Like it's $4,000 on Spotify if you have a million listens. So you're not making a, you're not, if you get a million listens, you are doing really well. But what happens is these people are just bombarding the system with, you know, you're going to get accounts with thousands of AI tracks and maybe they only get, you know, you know, a couple hundred, a thousand listens each track But when you, you know, when you put them all together, they're making a lot of money that's going to stop. And I think that's important for them to stop.
MICHAEL O’NEILL [00:48:31]
Yeah, I hear what you're saying. I hear what you're saying. Yeah. So. So it's like any other new technology that we always comes in. In the beginning, it's like, oh, everyone's like shocked and yeah, God. And then the dust settles. Yeah, it finds its place.
FLORENTINO BUENAVENTURA [00:48:49]
Yeah, it's like drum machines. Drum machines. Perfect example. Yeah.
MICHAEL O’NEILL [00:48:52]
Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
FLORENTINO BUENAVENTURA [00:48:54]
Like, like Steve Ferronia, we did an interview with Steve and he, he admitted and wholeheartedly said that when the Lynn drum came out and Roger put out those buttons that had the drummer with the, with the, with the Ghostbusters circle on it, that they were gonna go, they were gonna go, they were looking for him at NAMM to kick his *** literally. They were, they were not him and a few other, he didn't admit who the other drummers were, he said, I can't say who they are, but I will say that I was one of them. He goes, I love Roger now and I've used Lynn drums, but we were so afraid that our job was done because we didn't know what was involved. So, you know, as we start to come to a close, I'd like to make this, you know, just our interviews bite size for everybody and I respect your time. Let's jump to We talked a little bit about longevity, professionalism, preparation and relationships. All of that was in previous conversations. But along with that, give me five key things that people need to do to have a career of 50 years in this business.
MICHAEL O’NEILL [00:50:13]
Well, first of all, you have to live for 50 years.
FLORENTINO BUENAVENTURA [00:50:16]
That's true.
MICHAEL O’NEILL [00:50:18]
So that speaks to being healthy, taking care of yourself, that there's that. So I would say a big thing is knowing yourself. And what I mean by that is knowing what your strengths and weaknesses are as a musician or whatever it is that you aspire to do in this business. intimately know who you are that in that way so that you're not. Well, you know, we all have when we're younger, we have this tendency about like, hey, man, call me. I can do this. Hey, you call me. I can do that. I can do that. I can do everything. Well, at over time, you realize it's a big world out there and there's a lot of a lot of talent in the world. You, you then get to a place where you, you know, it's like you got to kind of pick a lane and pick a lane or two and play to your strengths, you know, shore up your weaknesses, shore up your weaknesses, you know, like you do so you can do, you know, some other things as well. But but really kind of like accentuate the positive. Let's put it that way. So that that's super important, you know, because if you're known for one or two things, that's all it takes.
FLORENTINO BUENAVENTURA [00:51:49]
Yeah, that's that is for sure. Because that specialist that that just has that sound, that flavor. And that's kind of that jumps us right into the next piece on to the closing closing questions. The name of the company's Tone Culture magazine. It's part of the Tone Culture United offering. It's a pro-musician platform that we are working together on. Tone Culture magazine, and just the term tone culture, really, I heard this in a magazine, not our magazine, but a article. Someone said, you know, Tone Culture describing, you know, the lifestyle of the professional musician and the fact that it's And you know it as well as I know it. It's the pursuit of the right sound, the right song. You know, the sometimes overly perfection. And it continues to call you because it's it's it's it is an innate melody, for lack of a way to put it, that continually goes through your your soul I went to work for Microsoft. I dabbled playing around with music and I got access to technologies, but I was like, I'm not, you know, I'm not going to do that business because I didn't see it being a viable way to have a consistent revenue channel for me. And then I just called me back. And that tone culture piece is huge. I want you to describe what I'm saying. In your terms, what is tone culture? If you hear that, what does it mean to you?
MICHAEL O’NEILL [00:53:37]
Well, I mean, it can mean a lot more than just like, let's say, the tone of your instrument.
FLORENTINO BUENAVENTURA [00:53:43]
Yeah, yeah.
MICHAEL O’NEILL [00:53:44]
So because, you know, having a great tone on your instruments is like paramount. I mean, you can be playing the best stuff in the world, but if the tone is not good, it's it's just it doesn't amount to much, right?
FLORENTINO BUENAVENTURA [00:53:55]
Yeah. Yeah.
MICHAEL O’NEILL [00:53:56]
You start there. But but a tone but a tone in terms of culture of of yourself as a person is like that's the whole person. How is your entire persona when you when people want to work with you, what is the tone of the culture you bring to a situation? Are you easy to work with? Are you friendly? Are you fun to be around? Yeah. Do you bring do you bring stuff that raises the music to another level? And do you and do you have respect for everyone involved in a project?
FLORENTINO BUENAVENTURA [00:54:39]
Amazing.
MICHAEL O’NEILL [00:54:40]
Are you a good team member?
FLORENTINO BUENAVENTURA [00:54:42]
Yeah.
MICHAEL O’NEILL [00:54:43]
You know, do you do your homework?
FLORENTINO BUENAVENTURA [00:54:46]
Yeah.
MICHAEL O’NEILL [00:54:48]
All of these things are part of like what comes to mind for me about tone culture.
FLORENTINO BUENAVENTURA [00:54:55]
Well, I'm going to have to steal some of that, man, because there were insights in there that weren't described in this article that I read. So it's well, and it really is what the magazine, what these interviews are all about. We're going to finish off with It's two questions that are completely unrelated, but because they're part of the same amazing, hugely impactful career. I'm going to ask them both at the same time. Current projects, we did discuss the Ray Fuller show at Spaghettini, so maybe tell people the date and the time for that. I know that you're doing movies, you're doing other projects, so tell me those projects and then One thing, one thought that you want the young professional to leave with after this interview.
MICHAEL O’NEILL [00:55:48]
Okay, good, good, good projects. Okay. Again, we reiterate the Ray Fuller's fundraiser at Spagatini September 9th. It's going to be for a really good cause. They have great food people. It's a great place to hear.
FLORENTINO BUENAVENTURA [00:56:05]
They do.
MICHAEL O’NEILL [00:56:06]
They do. some of the other things I have going um I have just we just finished uh we got our this film I just uh am scoring uh it's a documentary on Barbara Eden from the I Dream of Jeannie a television series wow and it's it's entitled bottle blonde great great yeah so we now have just finished or got it to the point where it's been submitted to the Sundance And I think they're going to also submit it to South by Southwest Film Festival. So we're waiting to see where that's going to land because it's a independent production. So, you know, you go to Sundance, you go to South by Southwest, all the entire industries there, all the distribution companies, so you make deals. So we'll see where that goes. But that's been a very, very fun project. It's going to be a really nice film, really fortunate and grateful to be a part of that one so there's that there's also September 11th there's a re-release of a George Benson record which is called inspiration a tribute to Nat King Cole.
FLORENTINO BUENAVENTURA [00:57:25]
Yeah yeah I seen George's uh poster about that.
MICHAEL O’NEILL [00:57:28]
Right so it's a re-release with some added tracks uh that were not on the original release So I'm on a little bit of that too. I played on a little bit of that record.
FLORENTINO BUENAVENTURA [00:57:39]
Awesome.
MICHAEL O’NEILL [00:57:39]
The other thing is this is like in the background and we're working towards it. In 2005 when I was on a long Brazilian tour with George, he asked me to come. We had three days off in Sao Paulo, Brazil, and he asked me to come and help him produce a recording of him with some of the best Brazilian musicians in the world. And so I did that. I co-produced the sessions. Those were sitting for 20 plus years.
FLORENTINO BUENAVENTURA [00:58:12]
Wow.
MICHAEL O’NEILL [00:58:13]
They're now brought out of the vault and being moved towards completion.
FLORENTINO BUENAVENTURA [00:58:19]
Well, that's awesome.
MICHAEL O’NEILL [00:58:21]
I don't know yet what the title of the record will be, but I can just tell you that it is. This is George from 2005. Spectacular.
FLORENTINO BUENAVENTURA [00:58:34]
Awesome.
MICHAEL O’NEILL [00:58:35]
Awesome. I'm not sure when it's almost done. And then once it's done, then they'll, you know, they'll move towards a release date. So those things are happening. And the thing I'd like to convey to younger people, aspiring musicians and producers and engineers and whatever it is that you're trying to do in this business is Remember that no two paths are ever alike. We are all snowflakes.
FLORENTINO BUENAVENTURA [00:59:15]
Not from a political standpoint.
MICHAEL O’NEILL [00:59:17]
Not from a political standpoint or yeah, none of that. But we're just like, no two are created the same. And so we, that's where it goes back to like really knowing yourself well because It's all the valuable experiences that you go through help shape where you're heading to. If you have an aspiration to do a certain thing and you're feeling very common feelings and fears that we all do in trying to do something because The world is so full of so much, so many extremely talented people where you think you can feel like, oh man, this is impossible. I just can't reach this. But the bottom line is to tune into your assets, be the best you that you can be, because it's impossible to do it any other way in reality.
FLORENTINO BUENAVENTURA [01:00:20]
Yeah, yeah.
MICHAEL O’NEILL [01:00:21]
You do it your way and just keep working at that. Keep, you know, keep doing things that resonate with yourself, you know, with your own heart. Not don't don't do it because I'm supposed to do this. I have to do this. No, you got to want it and you got to want it in your heart and commit to that. Yeah, yeah, that's your path forward.
FLORENTINO BUENAVENTURA [01:00:47]
That is great advice from a man with a very storied, you know, historic career with things that you've done going on 50 years. That's why I mentioned that before. It's 40 plus years. So, folks, I want you to, you know, online virtually give a big round of applause for Michael O'Neill and his just gracious sharing of his heart and mind in his business. That is what Tone Culture is all about. That's the one thing I do like about the business nowadays. Before there was so much money, there was dog eat dog. Now people, I mean, you've always been this way, but you get less of it now. People want to help other people because they want to be helped. And I think as we look at it, Tone Culture United was that came together for that idea that we're musicians helping musicians have sustainable careers in this industry. And so thank you, Michael O'Neill, producer, guitarist, keyboardist, bass player now that I learned extraordinaire, songwriter. I mean, it's too many things I can say when all the stuff that you've played on has been and encouraged. I continue many things to you and I look forward to doing more and more stuff together.
MICHAEL O’NEILL [01:02:10]
I'll be back.
FLORENTINO BUENAVENTURA [01:02:13]
And we don't have the next interview just yet, folks, but stay tuned. We're going to be doing these on a weekly basis. So I'm going to try to get another one going with different people and different insights. We've got articles. We do have some cool articles online. I'm going to go ahead and say, if you are a drummer, we've got a great interview and review with Tristan Boden on this. have not seven drums plus his experiences in this business. So take a look at that. I've got a great article on and I'm patting myself on the back. Can you still make a living only in music? That is something that a lot of people have questions about. A lot of musicians that have been doing this for a while have questions about it. So and then Jeff Weber is got one on producing and other insights. So stay tuned. We've got tons of stuff under the TCU magazine. mantle we're going to be doing some mentoring with other things so we look forward to to helping to build a stronger foundation for this industry for the people who matter the people that are making the business so.
MICHAEL O’NEILL [01:03:26]
Yes people Tino is bringing it he's bringing the love to all of you.
FLORENTINO BUENAVENTURA [01:03:36]
Thank you a very well-rounded amen brother to all the people and all their, you know, all the faiths around the world. So in that said, stay tuned.
Tone Culture Magazine | From Gear to Career. We Got You!